The pandemic and the opportunity for reform with President of the American Bar Association Patricia Lee Refo


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By Andrea Perry-Petersen and Andrea Perry-Petersen - Innovator. Discovered by Player FM and our community — copyright is owned by the publisher, not Player FM, and audio is streamed directly from their servers. Hit the Subscribe button to track updates in Player FM, or paste the feed URL into other podcast apps.

In this episode no. 45 I speak with President of the American Bar Association and Partner, Snell & Wilcox, Ms Patrica Lee Refo.

This interview covers:

  • The ABA’s mission, including racial equity and other practical strategies
  • The current focus on unmet legal needs due to the pandemic
  • The impact of the pandemic on the practise of law including remote working and training junior lawyers
  • The once-in-a-lifetime opportunity facing the profession
  • Who are the people best-placed to innovate and reform
  • How the historic ABA resolution regarding reform was developed and passed
  • The importance of experimenting and measuring what works
  • The role of technology and paraprofessionals in creating more options for everyday people
  • Specific ABA projects including Free Legal Answers, Legal Tech for a change, the Miranda tool and Floodproof app
  • The power inherent in being a lawyer
  • The need to build back justice systems that are better than before
  • Ms Refo’s definition of legal innovation or, more particularly what it’s not!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours.


Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp –

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

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85 episodes