Automation to augmentation: from lawyers acting as modems and machines as judges with Pia Andrews


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By Andrea Perry-Petersen and Andrea Perry-Petersen - Innovator. Discovered by Player FM and our community — copyright is owned by the publisher, not Player FM, and audio is streamed directly from their servers. Hit the Subscribe button to track updates in Player FM, or paste the feed URL into other podcast apps.

In episode no. 68 my guest is serial public sector transformer, Pia Andrews. We discuss:

  • how her pursuit of “truth” led her to the open-source movement and working in policy development;
  • how technological tools relate to our quality of life;
  • ‘open source’ – its philosophy and implementation and the idea of “clever hacks”;
  • how ‘rules as code’ addresses issues with enforcing regulation;
  • prescriptive and principles-based rules and when each are appropriate;
  • the connection between the cost of implementing regulation and its effectiveness;
  • how an API for prescriptive rules relating to anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism funding could have saved one bank $16M per year!;
  • how ‘rules as code’ make compliance more transparent by allowing for modelling, and how this could increase accountability of the public sector;
  • how current policy creation is insufficient and requires input from community and an example from France which incorporated co-design of policy;
  • Taiwan’s response to the introduction of Uber!
  • the importance of multidisciplinary teams in developing policy and how ‘rules as code’ facilities doing so in real time;
  • how ‘rules as code’ improves trust and compliance with administrative law and shifts the onus to government;
  • different public sector approaches to the “new normal”;
  • how the relationship between the public sector and its government drives outcomes;
  • whether a public sector should serve – the government, parliament or the people?
  • 3 things necessary to create an environment for innovation and solving wicked problems;
  • the connection between capacity and innovation, and Pia’s ideas about how to increase civic participation through a “civic gap year” and “policy difference engine”; and of course
  • Pia’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic


Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp –

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

82 episodes